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Chris Bateman's avatar

These are great topics; I like the comparison between the microbiological (a topic I have learned a great deal from studying) and the ideological/paradigmatic especially. It is certainly undeniable that the sciences emerge from within the background of the religious, of course. In The Mythology of Evolution, I collect those who would project the 'science vs religion' metaphor under the heading 'positivist' (this is fairer than 'atheist' in my view, although this issue becomes complex rapidly). In general, however, it is the positivists who maintain the view of 'science vs religion', and this is a viewpoint that (as you are well aware) distorts both science and religion.

I have felt for sometime that what is needed is a means to reconfigure this split. Since the sciences are full of religion-like elements, and religions frequently entail science-like elements, trying to create a split here serves no purpose except one: it satiates the psychological desire of the positivists to define themselves as a negative image of what religion means to them (i.e. to collect the negative image of religious practice and pretend that there is an opposite, and that this opposite is embodied in magical science).

The sensible path forward is closed to us. That would be to reopen metaphysics as a legitimate field of study and discourse. As long as metaphysics are excluded from public discussion, we are trapped by our metaphysics. But this is impossible, because precisely the pact the positivists made with themselves - from the Vienna Circle onwards - is that they do not partake in metaphysics (and are therefore even more apt to be mislead by them).

What's required is a new metaphor that remounts 'science versus religion'. I do not know if the best path forward requires a new A vs B (these are easily absorbed in most people's minds) or a transition to an A, B, C (harder to absorb, but helpful for breaking out of the blindness). Charles Taylor mounts an attack of the latter kind. It didn't land despite being widely read (at least in Catholic and philosophical circles). That makes me wonder if a new A vs B is required.

I have spent a great deal of time on this issue, and I'm no closer to a solution. The problem being, of course, the solution has to be capable of incorporation into positivist metaphysics. But positivists do not believe they have metaphysics. And therein lies the problem.

As for 'separation of science and state', aye, I have argued for the same, in various ways. But technocracy remains functionally a kind of atheocracy, and until this can be exposed (the religious-like aspects of positivism) there is little hope of moving on this issue. Still, I persist!

Many thanks for a stimulating discussion!

Chris.

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Mike Moschos's avatar

Its the Research Universities, we should never have placed science there in the decades after WW2, the Big Research Unis, Big Biz (who has outsourced so much of its science to them on the taxpayers dime all the while greatly shrinking Medium Biz and its science), and BIg Gov exist in a symbiotic relationship with each other and we have a far smaller scientific ecosystem than we had/would have and could have, and on top of that its very homogeneous and hierarchical -- which isnt good for genuine science either -- which along with the deeply interconnected relationships (in many cases its hard to tell where one ends and the other begins) produce most of these problems, plus more but that would take more space...

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